I’m using Ubuntu 23.10 with proposed NOT enabled.
I hope this rethinking will not be for standard Ubuntu amd64 but for some other versions.
a newbee will find Ubuntu too poor and move to a different distribution.
As long as the OS can view or play the content out of the box in a direct and purposeful way, I’m content with that. I didn’t realize GNOME was modernizing their media app stack
As far as I know Totem also plays MP3s and other music files, so totem is enough to provide a basic media player.
Maybe the Ubuntu team should also look what other systems install be default. If we look at the RHEL9/CentOS Stream Workstation and Windows 10/11 default install they have in common:
No Office Suite preinstalled
Media Player preinstalled
Camera app preinstalled
Email app preinstalled
Though personally I’m against preinstalling Email app and Cheese, but I’m in a favour of a basic media player (totem).
This is what’s part of a minimal RHEL9/CentOS Stream 9 Workstation default install:
Evolution
Totem
Calculator
Gedit/Text Editor (modern version: gnome-text-editor)
System Monitor
Cheese (modern version: gnome-snapshot)
Gnome Disk Usage Analyser
Gnome Disk Utility
Gnome Screenshot (not needed anymore, integrated in shell)
Gnome Image Viewer/eog (modern version: loupe)
Gnome Evince
Gnome Characters
Gnome Logs
Gnome Font Viewer
Gnome Help
Gnome Software
Gnome Terminal (modern version: gnome-console)
Firefox
You can’t remove libreoffice, thinks a user who receives a document by email.
You can’t remove simple-scan, most users have a multifunction printer.
You can’t remove rhythmbox, most users uses PC to listen to music.
You can’t remove shotwell, is the only preinstalled tool to work with images.
…
If user want a minimal install can use the ‘Minimal installation’ option.
Windows also has no office suite and scanner app preinstalled.
You can play music with totem or the browser. On Ubuntu 22.04 totem is the standard to open MP3s, not Rhythmbox. If you want a more substantial music app, you can decide foryourself in the App Store which is the best for you: Gnome Music, Rhythmbox, Spotify, etc…
You can open pictures and very basic editing with eog, which stays preinstalled. If you want more you can install Shotwell, Gnome Photos or whatever you want.
I personally think that cheese (or equivalent) is a nice thing to have on-board simply because most every laptop has a camera and a mic, and that gives users at least some basic way to take advantage of it. It’s good to have some way to use all the hardware in at least a basic form… Even if it’s just fun. Windows still comes with Paint
Thank you for reporting the issue. Let’s discuss that bug if needed on the Launchpad site instead of here. By the way, this isn’t a final list of changes but just a first draft.
Perhaps this is not the most appropriate topic, but I would suggest that Ubuntu come with nala pre-installed.
Quoting the official description:
Nala is a front-end for libapt-pkg. Specifically we interface using the python-apt api.
Especially for newer users it can be hard to understand what apt is trying to do when installing or upgrading.
We aim to solve this by not showing some redundant messages, formatting the packages better, and using color to show specifically what will happen with a package during install, removal, or an upgrade.
The apt is an excellent package manager, but visually it is worse than others used by non-Debian based distros. In addition to the look, other advantages of the nala are:
I believe apt and shipping a different CLI frontend to apt are the responsibility of the Foundations Team. Could you ask them about nala instead of here?
I think that a slim install will be fine and I believe that there are core apps that we all agree that should be installed by default (just don’t which ones, but the need they fulfill I think is tangible) - the browser, the terminal, etc… for me, the main criteria should be to have, in the slim install, the apps that are needed for the system to work and do the basic tasks, so I will summarized it as: an app to browser the web, an app to write and take notes, an app to listen to music/podcasts, an app to do basic calculations, an app to connect to other devices (computers, phones, etc). I believe that the rest should be managed by the welcome process (Welcome Screen). Now we are welcomed and configure online accounts, etc… and then we get a list of software that we could install. That deserves a good change imho. First people should be welcomed and the welcome screen should ask them what they want to do with their system and have at least three use cases that will install some recommended apps: Gaming (steam???, lutris, etc…), Office/productivity (email client, office suite, etc…), Multimedia (video editor, image editor, etc…). After that the list should appear and show how people they could install more apps that suit their needs. The advanced users should have an option to jump over this and use the OS.
My view is that the default install should be fast and provide the base tools, then when you start the system let the user and system match. For the people with slow or no internet connection maybe have a different ISO? Maybe with no live install just like the one in openSUSE?
I think the default installer installs too many fonts…
For example, I’m italian and I found fonts for hebrew, khmer, lao (and many other languages I’ll never use) installed.
When I need to change a font (for example in LibreOffice Writer) I have to scroll hundreds of useless (for me) fonts and I can’t find the fonts I need/want. This is even worse in GIMP because it doesn’t have the font preview that LO has, so i need to “blind” choose a font and it usually ends up in a unreadable sentence.
I understand that Ubuntu should fit for all the users of every language, but maybe the installer should ask the user if he wants to install all the fonts or only a sub-set of fonts based on the language they choose for the installation.
Eg. If I choose “Italian” or “French” it may ask to install only the “latin alphabet” fonts and not all the other fonts. A Japanese user may want to keep some fonts for English, but he probably don’t need Hebrew, Bengali or Arabic fonts (or just 1 font per-language would be enough).
Hmm… In this comment you let us know that you use Kubuntu. Then it’s important to keep in mind that Kubuntu ships a whole lot more fonts than standard Ubuntu does. So let’s not discuss the default selection of fonts in standard Ubuntu based on the Kubuntu experience.
I have some ideas about changing the default selection of fonts in standard Ubuntu, which I think would make the situation better with respect to the problem you mention. But I really think that discussion should better be hold separately, and not as a sub topic in this topic about default applications.
Remove office suite - Probably the most controversial thing but similar to email, I think most people are using web-based editors. Although as others have suggested, more work is needed to suggest an appropriate app if one isn’t installed to open particular file types.
Remove thunderbird - As someone who manages a fleet of Ubuntu devices and all using Thunderbird, I know we’re in the minority. Most orgs are using some webmail, and Thunderbird seems unnecessary for even a standard user.
Include media player - Totem seems the default choice. No need for separate music and video apps.
Include browser - It seems strange that the current minimal install doesn’t include this. Nearly everyone needs a browser in their desktop install.
I think this would cover most desktop use-cases while helping to keep install size down.
If you truly want a ‘minimal’ ubuntu install, you can start with a server installation and build-up from it.
That’s almost how I think, it would make the default install leaner. I just think that the “minimal” option should make a really minimal installation, without a graphical interface, so that you don’t have to use a server version for that (and why? because the installer is simpler and the “server” tag suggests a specific purpose, which can confuse users, although with a server version it is possible to do this minimal installation).
I’ve been installing only the minimal since it’s been available, and I’ve always had Firefox installed. I especially know because for a few years my first task was to uninstall it and replace it with Chromium. (Now back to Firefox myself.)
Your other comments are 100% what I’d say as well.
Yes something like that. A functional base, without a graphical interface, so that from that point on you can install whatever you want for whatever purpose you want. It’s a bit like the old mini.iso that was talked about earlier. Note that it is similar but different from Arch Linux, because in that case to reach that functional base that I am referring to, several configurations and packages are necessary to install, which makes the process more complicated and time consuming.
I just realized that my benchmark for “default core modern operating system experience” is Windows 3.1.
I think a complete desktop experience is probably one of the things that makes Ubuntu Ubuntu to me. It’s certainly always one of the largest selling points for new users, and a key value-add over Windows 11. And it also makes support a lot easier, because there’s some idea about what might be on any desktop Ubuntu system.
I don’t feel that a hundred different unmaintained custom ISOs created by random people with no clear documentation or description about what they contain is really a substitute for that kind of experience. The various Ubuntu flavors and remixes (which I think are great) already confuse newcomers enough, if my time manning Ubuntu booths is any barometer.
