Awesome statement.
We have Canonical Snapcraft snap store to provide thousands of snaps, installable at our choice.
https://snapcraft.io/
We as flavors are constant with documentation, some times you have to look very hard for the docs. They are very informative. Such as: Ubuntu Desktop Guide Ubuntu 23.04
Kubuntu’s Documentation
Awesome job from the developers and the doc. writers.
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Totally agree.
But in my view, Ubuntu serves a myriad of purposes. It’s for the common user, but it’s also for an infinity of projects with different needs.
That’s why I think it would be useful to have some option in the installer that would allow you to do a more advanced, or minimal installation. Or better yet, that may exist a real mini.iso that doesn’t install a full desktop version but let me install what I want for my needs.
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To be honest, i think we should do it how openSUSE does it but let the option for package selection be hidden and advanced users can find and install what packages they want and what packages they don’t want.
I mean, one of the goals of Ubuntu is to be accessible to many people who have no internet connection. Despite internet connections being better these days, many countries, particularly in Latin America, Africa and Asia don’t have the easy access to internet like the rest of the world does. After all, they are the reason why linux marketshare, particularly Ubuntu, is booming in countries like Nigeria and India.
We could also do a full iso for those who want a complete desktop system, and a minimal one for those who want a system from the ground up. That way, we can cater to those two groups: One that dislikes the full featured desktop install and wants to install their own apps and have a good quality internet connection, and the other for people in third-world countries.
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Perfect, totally agree. In my view, it would be the best way to cover the largest number of people and projects.
Until now a new release included everything needed to work and manage your hardware.
Now I install the new release saving my old home data. My old home is full of LibreOffice documents and I can’t use them anymore. You can remove Solitaire, mines, sudoku, gnome-clocks, gnome-weather, or gufw but not LibreOffice, simple-scan or other tools needed for daily office work.
Also tools like baobab needed to manage your disks or shotwell for a minimum image management can’t be removed.
A reduced installation may be accepted by old experienced users who will reinstall the applications they are used but a new Ubuntu user will find the new system unusable.
In the current install screen ‘Application and updates’ You may have a ‘Normal install’ that is reduced and options for ‘Install office apps’ and ‘Install system management apps’ with a note saying they are not granted/mantained like now you have the option for ‘Install third-party…’ and ‘… additional media…’
I hope future ISOs are not like the one dated 2023-07-18 because i installed it and found unusable for a new user.
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Back to Red Hat installations circa 1995?
What has happened to Linux for Human Beings?
Will Ubuntu become the province of those who, like me, were using Unix in the 70s and know how to build the system they want? Your question presumes the perspective of those with our years of experience. That is precisely what the Linux community is accused of by the general public. You are approaching the question from the viewpoint of an already capable technical user – and we do not represent the vast majority of newcomers to Ubuntu. It is easy to forget that we have navigated the learning curve and others won’t find this “easy”. Pull your heads and look at this question from the viewpoint of one just arriving in the community.
THAT is where you will find the best answer.
As for us, we know how to remove things we don’t want, as I always do, just as well as we know how to add things we do want. Or we can chose the most minimal of installations and build from there. But what is convenient for us is an impediment to the novice.
I’ll add this: What Microsoft does with Windows has absolutely NO bearing on our community. There is no need to even consider what a for-profit company does to bolster its revenue. Windows does not have an office suite by default because users have to pay for it separately. There’s a profit motive.
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I tested the 2023-07-19 ISO and I really like it. You get a very clean system, far better than the old overloaded standard install. Minimal install wasn’t an option for me, because even some important basics for hardware support etc were missing.
Now I install the new release saving my old home data. My old home is full of LibreOffice documents and I can’t use them anymore.
You can still open your Office documents, but now you have choice. You no longer have hundreds of hard-to-manage dependencies preinstalled just for one office suite.
You can install the office-suite of your choice with one click.
LibreOffice: Install libreoffice on Linux | Snap Store
OnlyOffice: Install ONLYOFFICE Docs on Linux | Snap Store
Some people might just prefer the online versions of Microsoft Office or Google Docs, which you can also use on Linux.
But I agree that people should get suggestions through the software centre and also suggestions when opening certain file formats.
simple-scan or other tools needed for daily office work.
Also tools like baobab needed to manage your disks or shotwell for a minimum image management can’t be removed.
On my own system I also install LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Baobab, Simple Scan, Transmission and Shotwell, but not everyone wants that, so I think the pre-installed selection should be rather modest.
Any pre-installed software increases the maintenance effort enormously and you also have to think of entreprises that want to have a small standard system. Even for inexperienced users, a slim standard installation is better. Too many options can lead to confusion.
What has happened to Linux for Human Beings?
That’s an empty argument. I can also reverse this to the opposite side. Human beings want freedom & choice which applications they install, therefore a clean install with many choices after it is better.
Back to Red Hat installations circa 1995?
The modern trend is that all distros are trimming down their default installs. Fedora is getting rid of LibreOffice, the new openSUSE Aeon is much slimmer than the classic Tumbleweed, and minimal distributions like Arch Linux and Clear Linux are trending.
I think it won’t be a problem for you to do a single click to install an office suite. 
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Hi! How did you get the new iso? I want to test it too
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I’ll provide http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/446/builds which is the ISO QA tracker for Ubuntu (all architectures, all flavors etc too).
You can follow links down, and you’ll find the DOWNLOAD INFORMATION which will answer what you’re actually asking for (ie. links more specific than Index of /daily-live )
The ISO QA tracker also allows you to record any QA testing you do should you follow a testcase
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I agree with pretty much everything you said in this comment. Especially this:
“It sounds a bit like a solution in search of a problem.”
I’m not really understanding the issue with the current install practices. If there’s lots of data to back up that people are finding this painful, then fair enough, but it’d be good to see that.
And choosing what you want in the install process via a GUI doesn’t sit perfectly with me… Choosing what comes in a package ‘bundle’ is an unclear process. I think what is installed in the default installation currently (outside of games like solitaire, which I don’t think are necessary) is great for the average non-tech adept user. Those of us, who know what software and packages we want, aren’t really bothered and know what we want from an installation anyway, and how to install the things we need. Plus we have an app store. I don’t know, like you said it seems like a solution in search of a problem.
I think these changes are also being done in the spirit of ‘flexibility’. But I think removing the option to be inflexible (in the case of a user who just wants an OS which works, and doesn’t ever want to really worry about package management, installing software bundles etc) is against the spirit of flexibility. If you don’t have the option to be inflexible, it’s not flexible, right?
The flexibility already exists with the minimal installation. So I don’t see the problem these changes solve
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I agree too: deciding the right approach is hard when we don’t know what problem we’re trying to solve.
The future is clearly one in which installing and updating from the internet is fast and low cost. But it isn’t everywhere yet: I’ve been in places this year where connectivity is non-existent, and I know that people live with access to only slow and expensive connections.
Having media that contains “everything needed to get going” is great when download speed or cost is an issue. We’ve provided this to date, but how do we assess the value of it?
Clearly, most of us participating here are part of the future and would appreciate an installation optimised for fast & cheap internet. That doesn’t need “office” software or kitchen sinks on the media. The more that is there by default, the more that, potentially, wants updating immediately after installation.
I have no evidence of what the expectation of consumer grade PCs is. But the ability to access media, play games, and edit “office” docs out of the box (even before/without setting up the internet) seems very plausible. An installation option to match this makes sense.
Those are two very different value propositions. Both have merits. Does either need to be the “default”?
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I don’t understand if the reduced ISO like today’s is the definitive format or not. You can confirm? Thank you
Hm, after thinking about it once more, I think the idea the desktop team has is not bad.
Image you went through a fast install and when you log in something-like-this pops up
(fast flutter mock-up app 
, click to make it bigger )
I think this works for 95% of the users, EXCEPT for people with a bad internet connection 
But otherwise I start to like the idea
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Revisiting the original post in this topic…
I’m going to gently push back on choose-apps-during-installation. I think that particular method of customization doesn’t adequately simplify, nor reduce time for experienced users.
Earlier in the topic, the thrust was more toward:
- Full-install of curated package set for inexperienced users (the vast majority), also offline users
- Minimal with Discoverability after install
- Minimal with Install-at-first need after install
- Minimal with Cloud-init-like customizability during install.
I think the latter three cover the choose-during-install use cases.
Or perhaps choose-apps-during-install could be a separate application: A YAML-creator that feeds the custom list into cloud-init.
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I actually like the minimal Ubuntu install.
I feel that it needs gufw included for any newbies.
That way their is a flip the switch firewall.
I still use gufw.
I install minimal version of Ubuntu and then add on Thunder bird, Libreoffice both as snap applications. I also add on VLC, gnome weather, clock, maps, and gufw. These are my core apps that I like to use. Regarding VLC I switch between snap or deb (not sure why I swapped back to deb the last time, but would like to stick on container version).
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Installed from ISO: Ubuntu 23.10 “Mantic Minotaur” - Daily amd64 (20230722)
installer slideshow says Thunderbird and Libreoffice are installed but they are NOT installed.
Slideshow is wrong? or installer?
That’s an empty argument. I can also reverse this to the opposite side. Human beings want freedom & choice which applications they install, therefore a clean install with many choices after it is better.
Better for those who know what they want. Not so good for those who are confused even by the installation of their new OS. Being given choices one does not understand adds to the confusion. I’ve been working to support users on the Ubuntu Forums for something on the order of 15 years. I know exactly the confusion newcomers experience.
The modern trend is that all distros are trimming down their default installs. Fedora is getting rid of LibreOffice, the new openSUSE Aeon is much slimmer than the classic Tumbleweed, and minimal distributions like Arch Linux and Clear Linux are trending. I think it won’t be a problem for you to do a single click to install an office suite.
Great for those who know what they are doing, as we do. Not so good for newcomers.
Again, such comments come from a viewpoint that presupposes our own experience and knowledge. Further, what others do with their distributions is immaterial.
There is already a minimal install option. Why are we casting about for changes to what already works? If a single image is desired, change the scripting so that there are “Full installation” and “Expert installation” options available as radio buttons. Let newcomers install a “full” version, learn the new OS, and choose how they want to go about a later installation.
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I agree, actually I like the minimal version the way it is.
Probably the decision has been taken. But if you are going to recommend Ubuntu to first time Linux users, a minimal install is definitely going to cause more problems than it solve.
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