That was mentioned in my previous post, about Linux Mint being the cinnamon flavor, but at this point Linux Mint is in its own world now. Most likely, it won’t become a flavor.
In the other post I stated why deepin is a challenge and risky for a desktop.
We will see, if I need to I will follow the steps you did for Disco-Cinnamon to get Cinnamon 4.0. If I proceeded with a Cinnamon Remix I would try to get it released by around Ubuntu 19.10 or 20.04. If time does end up going on very fast, it would be released after 19.04 release.
Naming it anything other than “Ubuntu Cinnamon Roll” would be a missed opportunity.
Probably said before, but the name is not a priority, the priorities should be as follows:
- Work with the Debian Cinnamon team to ensure Cinnamon is up-to-date in Debian Unstable, test it (fixes to upstream or Debian (if a Debian-specific bug)), and ensure that updates are passing through to Debian Testing (when Testing isn’t frozen)
- Ensure that Cinnamon updates are synced from Debian Unstable to the Ubuntu development branch (when the development branch isn’t frozen), test them (fixes as feature freeze exceptions if during freeze, or fix in Ubuntu (if Ubuntu-specific), or Debian (if Debian-specific) or upstream (if neither))
- Make SRUs for high-impact Cinnamon bugs and appropriate new Cinnamon microreleases for Cinnamon versions in supported Ubuntu releases
- Create Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix ISOs (at least for the 19.04 development branch), test, and automate(?) the daily creation of the ISOs
- Apply for official flavour status, including deciding on a name (probably Ubuntu Cinnamon, see below)
Though having said that the flavour name is low priority (though it should be ‘Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix’ for now):
This is sad (the old naming system was odd but a nice quirk of Ubuntu perhaps?), and means that the names of Ubuntu flavours are inconsistent, but I suppose *buntu names have already been approved and the Technical Board wouldn’t impose name changes on Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu (Ubuntu KDE, Ubuntu LXQt, Ubuntu Xfce) for the sake of consistency? I wonder if the previous *buntu naming contributed to sites like DistroWatch considering flavours to be different to Ubuntu proper? Or maybe it’s because Ubuntu was the first GNU/Linux distro to do official flavours? I don’t know the history… Most GNU/Linux distro official respins (e.g. Mint MATE or Fedora Cinnamon) are considered to be the same as the default spin.
I’ve voted ‘Ubuntu Cinnamon’ trusting that what Popey says is correct, but wish the names were more consistent…
Cinnamon is/was made only for one distro, Linux Mint, and Linux Mint is still based on Ubuntu and LMDE on Debian. Cinnamon DE would always work with both Ubuntu and Debian, and if it works with Ubuntu, then, it works with Debian unstable – Ubuntu is a tweaked mix of Debian Testing and Unstable, one of the reason, why Linux Mint stating that Ubuntu updates are not safe. That’s why Linux Mint had created a tweaked Synaptic, so not all Ubuntu updates get in and break it.
Linux Mint is quite successful in the Linux world, so would never think of being an Ubuntu flavour. Cinnamon was created, when Ubuntu started with Unity. And, the rest is known.
Just installed today’s Ubuntu 19.04 updates through Linux Mint’s Updater on my Disco-Cinnamon. The Updater is a part of that tweaked Synaptic. Installing apps or updating is through Gdebi or Synaptic, and not through a “software shop” that doesn’t tell you what it is installing. That’s one of the reasons, most Ubuntu users immediately install Synaptic.
I will try to get a daily build out.
Sorry for going off-topic, but I don’t think that’s true. It’s popular but not that popular. No official Ubuntu flavor installs it by default.
I disagree. There is https://spins.fedoraproject.org/cinnamon/
Also, I need to caution users about following your example: Mixing Ubuntu 19.04 repositories (which of course isn’t even released yet) with Linux Mint Tessa repositories creates a system that neither Ubuntu nor Linux Mint will be willing to support and it would probably need to be reinstalled to get back into a supportable status.
The best way forward for people who want a newer version of Cinnamon is to work to update the existing Cinnamon packages in Ubuntu (or support those who would do that work). There are many reasons why the Linux Mint packages are not acceptable as is in Debian or Ubuntu. Since Ubuntu’s Cinnamon packages come straight from Debian, it’s ultimately best to work with Debian on those packages but you could definitely start with a PPA if that’s easier.
Hi, I co-founded Ubuntu GNOME years ago. (By the way, the last supported version of Ubuntu GNOME, 16.04, has only about 2 months of support left.)
In my opinion, the name was to some extent one of the least important details to creating and maintaining the project.
It is important though. In our case, since GNOME enforces their trademark, we had to get approval from both Canonical (the custodians of the Ubuntu trademark) and from the GNOME Foundation Board. I believe we (along with UbuntuKylin which was approved simultaneously) ended up being the first in the series of Ubuntu desktop flavors to use the current favored convention of Ubuntu DESKTOPNAME (although Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Studio are relevant “prior art”.)
Because of name confusion, we couldn’t use Gubuntu. GNOME didn’t like the GNOMEbuntu proposal. Canonical Legal might have been relieved about that too.
Also, we had to develop a more independent logo since our first logo was too closely tied to GNOME.
It’s a bit early but I would encourage you to consider whether a completely unique name could work for your project instead of the obvious Ubuntu Cinnamon (Remix) name. It could let you avoid some trademark agreements and give your project a bit more freedom.
Agreed, no official flavour installs Synaptic by default, because they are official flavours.
I remember the beginning, when Cinnamon was just starting. I installed every single one, and those before, when Mint was with Gnome 2.
Test until they break, or they don’t break. It is neither Mint nor Ubuntu, but it works, and if it stops, I’ll start again. Have enough 20GB partitions.
I also have an unusual Ubuntu that runs
env GNOME_SHELL_SESSION_MODE=ubuntu /usr/bin/gnome-session --session=ubuntu. That too is holding on. Updating everyday to check, if any of my disco installs would break. Few days left for feature freeze, anyway.
For Debian or Ubuntu to have Mint packages in their repos, Mint devs have to make them first for themselves. And, those Mint packages would always be compatible, for the next Cinnamon-Mint LTS would have to be compatible with next Ubuntu LTS and next Debian.
Name can be decided on later, first the distro/remix has to be made. I am giving evidence that Cinnamon 4.0 works quite well with Disco, so @itzswirlz go ahead and make the Cinnamon Remix.
Whether or not flavors are official doesn’t mean that dictates if we can install Synaptic. It’s in Universe, so only the flavors could install it by default, but it could happen.
I never really used Synaptic, but yes, Synaptic would be a good cause for this case.
And Cinnamon was not made for other distros, I don’t think the LM team made it for it’s own distro. It was most likely made for people who hated GNOME Shell when it was introduced in 2011.
And, I don’t think I would suggest this if Fedora didn’t have a spin-I actually used to have the Cinnamon Spin installed.
Synaptic can be trickier, but we always have to be careful, so hopefully I’ll be able to reach out to the Linux Mint team and talk with them.
Hi, nice to meet you!
I am very aware about this-naming is kind of also scary because the last thing we want is for Canonical to get upset at us. We also, as I mentioned will need to make a communication with Linux Mint in order to get Cinnamon 4.0.
For a name, then again, also a question for linux mint. I also thought Cubuntu would be bad due to the name confusion.
And for a logo, I was kind of thinking of having a logo of the icon-and around it would be a circle, that when a “button” would illuminate/unilluminate, there would be no button, just a shaker pouring cinnamon to fill the outer circle, and as it goes, the text “Ubuntu Cinnamon” would partially go on, like in the Fedora plymouth boot screen.
It seems like Synaptic is the word, and due to the Cinnamon 4.0 - Ubuntu bridge, through Linux Mint, then Synaptic is most likely required due to @chanath’s Disco-Cinnamon.
Also, I’ve been looking at other flavors. Some of them, I think Xubuntu, came with Synaptic. People like Synaptic, so we should just take a chance and include it.
That answer’s ALMOST everything. At 12:00 PM EST, Saturday February 17th all polls will close. It seems like the answer will be yes and I will announce the faith and plans for it.
Mint, Cinnamon is interconnected with Synaptic.
Cinnamon was made mainly to not to go with Unity. Since then, Linux Mint became a quite separate distro, not something that just changes few wallpapers or themes. The thing is, Clem never forked Ubuntu, but
used as a package base and regarded as an upstream component.
They went on making Cinnamon better, while Unity stopped. At that time, two unique DEs happened, Unity and Cinnamon, the rest is history.
You can try to reach out, but I don’t think they are interested in having an Ubuntu Cinnamon remix. It won’t be in their interest to have an additional “remix” that goes against their philosophy. They release only LTS ones, and point releases. The next LTS would appear few months after the Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.
In the case of Linux Mint, we try not to introduce incompatibilities with upstream package bases, so we keep the same libraries, same versions and we do not fork the base.
Here’s how Ubuntu disco looks with the Cinnamon packages in the Ubuntu repos. It has Cinnamon 3.8.8-1
Quite different than the Cinnamon here. Looks bit older. The Mint-Y icons don’t work well too – too small. In the Disco-Cinnamon, they look normal.
Synaptic is very buggy nowadays. We have at least two serious bugs:
- bug 1685376 - Synaptic rebuilds search index very often and inefficient
- bug 1533554 - Duplicate package entries shown when listing by package origin
they should be fixed before installing Synaptic out-the-box.
Currently Muon looks better and more stable than Synaptic.
I didn’t say that Synaptic can be trickier… It is not, and it is my main package manager, other than the terminal.
Muon is all right, but doesn’t have the same abilities of Synaptic. None of this kind of apps have Synaptic’s abilities. Btw, these bugs are small problems, that can be looked after. I often use Bleachbit, and someone might say it is not safe, blah, blah, but it works quite well, even with Windows 10. Some very good distros use Synaptic, Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sparky Linux, MX Linux etc. Btw, Synaptic also works quite well in Kubuntu.
Thanks for that - hadn’t known about muon before, but it’s now replacing my Synaptic app as muon seems to be maintained.
Deepin has not been shown to be an actual risk, only a purported one. I’m using it and love it with only a couple reservations. Recordmydesktop has problems with it, for one. But on the whole, the positives far outweigh the negatives unless and until Deepin Desktop is shown to be an actual security risk, which it hasn’t.