I am posting this here so that core developers can see it.
There is a Ask Ubuntu post that the new Ubuntu installer (present in 24.04 and later) is not very friendly with users with vision issues. Turns out that the Orca screen reader does not work properly.
I’m going to reopen this and move it to the Community section for discussion.
Summary: The Ubuntu Flutter installer is not usable to sight-impaired users. The user is not experienced enough to file the bug report themself.
Example: Buttons are labelled “button” to the screen reader instead of a useful description.
Sure, it’s a bug. And it also highlights a couple issues.
The silo effect. @apandada1 is one of the top support volunteers in AskUbuntu, but isn’t sure how to locate the right people here for this particular problem. That’s a training and community issue. He shouldn’t be out there alone.
Recruiting and retaining new community volunteers. The querent is a fellow ripe for recruiting to be a tester…on a project that has been asking for testers. The helper is ripe to become a contributor in other areas.
Kudos to @apandada1, who is trying to help a fellow user find a better answer.
Decent enough reason to reopen it. However, the Ask Ubuntu question is now closed as being off-topic since it’s a bug report on a Question & Answer site.
I think the best way to address this is to look at this from the perspective of the desktop flavor, so with that hat on, and knowing that it’s part of the ubuntu-desktop-provision framework, this means the bug needs to be filed at ubuntu-desktop-provision in Launchpad.
However, it could also be that Flutter apps cannot be read by Orca since bringing Flutter, as a toolkit, to Linux is a relatively new concept. Therefore, it could conceivably be a bug in Orca, in which case the right thing to do would be to enter the command ubuntu-bug orca in the terminal to file the bug report.
Not knowing the clear answer, I think the best thing to do here would be to enlist the help of those that might know, such as @local-optimum and @dloose. If either of those two have any ideas on how to address this situation, I think the visually impaired community would be grateful.
The reason I started this thread is, I want to start a discussion in the community about how to effectively help visually impaired users (I know how to file a bug report, but I did not create this post to file a bug report).
The main goal is to help visually impared users use Ubuntu with as little hassle as possible.
In the long term, the solution is to make Orca support flutter apps (or vice versa), but it may take months to years till Orca properly supports them.
In the short term, till Orca becomes compatible with flutter, can we have an alternative Ubuntu installer ike Ubiquity or Calamares (which will be in the ISO, but not loaded by default) that is supported by Orca?
At the beginning of the installation, the installer can offer to switch to the alternate installer for visually impared users.
That will actually help users - after all Ubuntu means “Humanity towards other”. If the developers just say something like this is not our bug (Orca bug/flutter compatibility issue), that would not help users who cannot see very well.
Currently, Ubuntu ISO are almost 6 GB. Shipping another installer in the ISO will not make a big difference.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that easily or that simple. What you’d be asking is a bit more complex than that. Going back to Ubiquity is a non-starter, and carrying Calamares would conflict as the two do identical things. The only real solution is to patch Orca to read the right thing.
What I’m saying is that in order for anything to happen, a bug report must be filed first. A discussion here without a bug report does nothing but blow smoke in the wind, as it were.
I’m not someone behind the installer, which is why I tagged the people that I did (the Desktop team lead and the Desktop Provisioning lead). Only they can come up with a solution, but again. a bug report must be filed.
Christopher Gilland (OP) deleted his post on askubu after it was closed as off-topic (not a bug tracker) and I not want to see his post disappear in housekeeping of the sites database, so I’ve copied the OPs text from Christopher’s post to the following thread
It’s not a bug report (I’d love to get Christopher to file that), but is I hope a stop gap measure, in hopes data doesn’t get lost; link provided here should anyone want to read the original post (and can’t access askubu’s link)
Hey folks, I just wanted to update this thread to say that last cycle we commissioned a full third party audit of desktop accessibility support across the critical user journey (including the installer) and have some dedicated time set aside to address issues related to screenreader, high contrast and large text support in the Ubuntu 25.04 cycle. Thank you all for raising this important issue.
@apandada1 I am not visually impaired (though I do wear glasses) but your topic interested me.
I used a VM to test the latest daily build of 25.04, Plucky.
I enabled Orca and all it does is say something like “install Ubuntu window” and nothing else. I expected it could or would read the text on each install screen, allowing the user to input what they wanted.
Would you like me to add my name to the bug report?
I hope that the more people who test this and report it will give the bug report a higher priority.
I remember have a problem with a futter-based, because devices with AMD processors has this problem since 23.04 installer based on flutter and 24.04.1 still has that issues. Rather than just issues for Orca Screen reader.
You’re not alone. Also the page from Ask Ubuntu appears to be removed.
(Probably due to be off-topic by one of moderators from that Ask Forum)
That Ask Forum site is stricted to Question & Answers only, but Bug Reports is allowed, just make it as a question like this.
Why’s Futter-based installer cannot seem to able to have Orca Screen Reader to work properly?
And then you make a bug report on a description what you want to make sure it’s a question, so that way it’s not flagged as Off-topic by moderators.
This is how it works in that Ask Forum site, I remember made that mistake too, but I learned.
@apandada1 This was my experience (keep in mind that I may not have been doing this correctly with the screen reader):
Ubuntu 20.04: screen reader activated but only says “window” for the installer and nothing else that I was able to detect.
Ubuntu 22.04: screen reader activated and was able to detect and read from all relevant screens but only minimally.
What do I mean? For example, on the screen for what type of install it detects and reads the default install but does not seem to detect or read other options such as the minimal option.
In other words, whatever is selected as default on each screen it can read but seemingly nothing else.
On the username and password screen it does detect input when using Tab to move between the fields.
On the region screen, nothing was read so I assume it just detected my default region and there was no additional input.
Overall, I think there seems to have been work done to improve the screen reader function but I would make the following improvements:
the voice is so 80s, really should be updated
not all parts of the screen seem to be read and therefore this too could be improved
I am neither a developer nor a programmer so I would not even know where to start the process of improvement.
However, I am more than happy to help testing if relevant.