Thanks for the tip on inxi. I hadn’t known of that tool.
$ inxi -r
Repos:
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
1: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy main restricted
2: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-updates main restricted
3: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy universe
4: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-updates universe
5: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy multiverse
6: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-updates multiverse
7: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
8: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-security main restricted
9: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-security universe
10: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-security multiverse
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/lenovo-oem.list
1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/volatile/lenovo-oem/gpg/oem_pubkeys.asc] file:///usr/share/volatile/lenovo-oem/archive /
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/oem-jiayi-meta.list
1: deb http://oem.archive.canonical.com/ jammy jiayi
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/oem-sutton-barrett-meta.list
1: deb http://lenovo.archive.canonical.com/ jammy sutton
It is the last two, oem-jiayi-meta.list and oem-sutton-barrett-meta that are causing the upgrade to fail. If anyone could give me a concise description of what these do, I might be willing to reimage the disk.
At this point, I’d love it if someone with experience with this issue, namely, proprietary packages not fitting in with the Ubuntu release cycle, could tell me how long they have seen it take for a vendor like Lenovo to provide the OEM packages needed to allow the Ubuntu upgrade process to work. I’m not looking for anybody’s guarantee, just wanting to know the lay of the land.
Am I being too impatient? Have you ever seen a case where the vendor NEVER provides OEM packages, thereby locking the user into outdated versions and forcing them to “mess around” getting the upgrade to go, at the risk of possibly disabling some piece of hardware?
Package: oem-sutton-barrett-meta
Version: 22.04~ubuntu1
Priority: optional
Section: misc
Origin: Ubuntu
Maintainer: Commercial Engineering commercial-engineering@canonical.com
Bugs: OpenID transaction in progress
Installed-Size: 13.3 kB
Depends: ubuntu-oem-keyring
Modaliases: meta(dmi:bvnLENOVO:bvrN3T:pvrThinkPad*)
Ubuntu-Oem-Kernel-Flavour: oem
Download-Size: 1,906 B
APT-Sources: Index of /ubuntu jammy-updates/main amd64 Packages
Description: hardware support for Lenovo ThinkPad P16 Gen 2
This is a metapackage for Lenovo PC:
Lenovo ThinkPad P16 Gen 2
It installs packages needed to support this hardware fully.
$ dpkg --list | grep hwe
ii linux-generic-hwe-22.04 6.8.0-51.52~22.04.1 amd64 Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers
ii linux-headers-generic-hwe-22.04 6.8.0-51.52~22.04.1 amd64 Generic Linux kernel headers
ii linux-hwe-6.8-headers-6.8.0-51 6.8.0-51.52~22.04.1 all Header files related to Linux kernel version 6.8.0
ii linux-hwe-6.8-tools-6.8.0-51 6.8.0-51.52~22.04.1 amd64 Linux kernel version specific tools for version 6.8.0-51
ii linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 6.8.0-51.52~22.04.1 amd64 Generic Linux kernel image
ii linux-modules-nvidia-535-generic-hwe-22.04 6.8.0-51.52~22.04.1 amd64 Extra drivers for nvidia-535 for the generic-hwe-22.04 flavour
ii systemd-hwe-hwdb 249.11.5 all udev rules for hardware enablement (HWE)
Please explain what you mean by “holding back those two packages”. And what would be the difference between “holding them back” and then immediately releasing the hold vs. not holding them back in the first place?
I do thank you though for actually thinking about my specific issue. Many others are just throwing generic “solutions” my way without understanding the problem.
I agree that it smells like a bug or at least a missing package. Again, can someone explain “holding back packages” to me? I don’t know how to do that.
As for the link you sent, I’m not sure what solution you see there. Going there I see Index of /dists/jammy-jiayi (i.e. jiayi for 22.04) but no noble-jiayi (jiyai for 24.04). And no sutton-barrett-meta for any upgrade level.
What did you intend by sending me there? I don’t quite understand.
I’ve read this thread a few times, and I can’t see any logs or messages showing the upgrade failure. Is there something we can see, which shows the actual issue?
It looks to me like the laptop was shipped with the hardware enablement repositories enabled because they’re required in order to be a certified device. Note this text:
Pre-installed in some regions with a custom Ubuntu image that takes advantage of the system’s hardware features and may include additional software. Standard images of Ubuntu may not work well, or at all.
The OEMMeta wiki page describes the necessity for the oem-*-meta. Perhaps interestingly the oem-jiayi-meta package appears to be for the enablement of a Dell laptop. Perhaps there’s some shared data between the Dell and Lenovo models.
The oem-sutton-barrett-meta is specific for your model of laptop. The quirky names are because the hardware enablement team (mostly based in Taipei) use codenames to hide new manufacturers, and pre-release models of hardware from public view. So “sutton” is probably Lenovo, and “barrett” could be your model of laptop.
It is possible that the changes that were required, so your laptop could be supported by the custom image for 22.04, may no longer be required for 24.04. So it’s possible you might be able to disable the repos, upgrade, and everything work.
It’s also possible something won’t work properly, like wifi, suspend, or the GPU.
One way to find out would be to download the latest 24.04 install image, and put it on a USB stick, then boot the system with it. Noodle around, and make sure the things that work on 22.04 (wifi, touchpad etc) work as you expect.
In my experience (I have a ThinkPad Z13, that shipped with Ubuntu) upgrading a OEM-pre-installed system some time after the next LTS is out, is usually pretty smooth. If that were my laptop, I’d disable the repos, and try the upgrade. However, it could all explode in a thousand colours, kick your cat, and leave the taps running. So you may want to take additional care, backups, and seek other opinions.
Grrrr. We are apparently talking on two different threads! Don’t know how that happened.
I have USB drives one with the original out-of-the-box config of the machine and the other with 24.04.1 image. There is nothing on this machine yet that needs to be backed up.
I am torn in three different directions, or possibly four.
Wait for call back from Lenovo on the issue I opened with them. I’d like to get some answers about the packages and what I do and don’t need, but I strongly suspect their reply won’t satisfy me.
Try the reimage option and see what happens, secure in the knowledge that I have a backup image of the original system.
I have heard that Kubuntu has a 24.04 version that does not have these problems that may be worth a try but have not researched this carefully enough.
just return the ****** thing to Lenovo and try somebody else with no assurance that anything else will be better.
I find it very hard to contain my anger that I should have to go through this after paying $3000 for this system. I really don’t want to return it. Earlier this month I returned a computer to System76 - AND its replacement - for problems much more serious than this. After a day’s use the system wouldn’t boot! I used to say that Linux WAS ready for prime time, but this is getting tedious.
I am beset by two different types of “helpful” advice:
People who without even understanding this issue point me at generic info that has no applicability to my situation. Or Lenovo tech support that says “not certified - go away”
“Cowboys” who advise me to charge ahead and fix whatever mess may be created which they assure me can always be done. I like to mess around or I wouldn’t be using Linux, but not at this level. At some point I want to use the computer for the purpose for which I bought it.
I don’t place you in these category, popey. You seem to have taken the time to grok the situation.
At this point, I have viewed all the suggestions made, all the source repositories anyone could point me at and find this to be my inescapable conclusion:
Ubuntu has no control over Lenovo or other vendors as far as assuring timely compliance with releasing oem driver packages for new models.
Lenovo uses the certification system to deflect any complaints about the above.
Ubuntu needs Lenovo to keep making Linux machines and is therefore unwilling to push them very hard on this. And their web-help community sites, having no good solution, can only abuse their users with down-votes, closing issues that they cannot answer. This is the only Ubuntu site I’ve found that does not do this.
As far as I can tell, in my case, the required OEM driver software does not yet exist and I have no idea when it will.
Users of such machines have two choices:
either 1) accept that their machine is not upgradable until the hardware vendor produces usable driver software, or 2) go the cowboy route and do deep hacking of their system, a time-sucking process that may interfere with the actual uses for which they purchased the system, if it even works.
I am waiting for a call back from Lenovo. If they don’t call me I’m calling them. I want them to tell me WHEN these driver packages are going to be released. Never is not an acceptable answer. Linux systems need to be upgradable.
I think Ubuntu and not individual users should be pushing vendors (gently, perhaps) to produce the necessary packages.
Update: my only uncertainty about the above is that I don’t really know who is the creator of the OEM packages. Is it Lenovo or is it Ubuntu (Canonical) or is it collaborative between them? Whatever it is, something is broken.
Do I really care if I am running 22.04 or 24.04? With the Ubuntu Pro/ESM support I have signed up for, it seems that this means there will continue to be updates provided for 22.04, so how much difference does the version really make to me? Not much! If I can stop worrying about that, I can get about what I really want to do, which is use this shiny new computer that I just bought.
In fact, I wonder, is the difficulty in getting oem hardware support, the very reason for the introduction of Ubuntu Pro/ESM in the first place??? Is Ubuntu Pro Ubuntu’s answer to this problem?
I hope I can clear up these thoughts. I used to work at Canonical, so know a little about how this works.
I think you have had some “bum steers” from people who don’t appreciate the hardware enablement and certification processes, sadly
I came to this thread late, after it had been broken up, and you were already frustrated. I’d recommend putting at the conversation and politicing aside, and just boot a 24.04 ISO on a USB stick and see what works. That will get you further than screeds of text complaining about Lenovo and Ubuntu
(Much as it might be cathartic to do that)
The hardware manufacturers contract Canonical for engineering services. They also do this with Red Hat and others. They pay for the initial hardware enablement work, which typically involves patching the kernel, or adding packages to a special image.
Ubuntu (the open source distro, whose development is sponsored by Canonical) doesn’t really have “control” over the hardware vendors at all. The OEMs decide what services they wish to contract from Canonical.
Once a laptop model has gone from pizzabox to customer release, the hardware vendor has typically long moved on to the next model. They get no recurring revenue from you owning that laptop you purchased a few years ago.
It basically comes down to “Who is going to pay for the ongoing maintenance for that device in the next Ubuntu release?”
That’s quite a negative view from a frustrated user, I understand.
Bear in mind this is all open source stuff. Someone (you, me, anyone else) with sufficient skills, time and motivation (and the hardware) could take the patches (or whatever work is required) to “forward port” the changes that were landed in 22.04, and bring them to 24.04. That’s kinda the point of putting the source out there.
Well, it might not need to. Like I said in my other post, it’s entirely possible that you don’t need that driver anymore, because the work may have been integrated into the upstream (or Ubuntu patched) kernel.
Option 3) Boot from a live 24.04 and see for themselves if the system works on the new release.
Option 4) Remove the two OEM repos, and do the upgrade anyway.
I went for 4, and it worked on my Lenovo Z13.
I’m happily running 24.04 and everything works using the OEM kernel from the repo.
linux-image-oem-24.04a which pulled in linux-modules-6.8.0-1019-oem, that I have been happily running for some time now:
What am I testing for? I’ve seen posts that say wifi and/or bluetooth don’t work after such an install. I suppose those would be easy enough to test quickly. But can I really test the graphics card without installing the driver onto the live boot? The fact that upgrades are disabled by the vendor tells me they’re scared something won’t work. Or is it excessive caution? I will here refrain from any political comments about putting testing responsibility on the end user of a computer they just purchased.
I guess I’m willing to try that, secure in the knowledge that I can always go back to the factory-fresh config which I saved onto a USB stick as instructed by the machine on its first start.
What do you think of “Option 5” which I posted above? - just sticking with 22.04 and waiting for release of the drivers with needed updates provided by ESM. What are the negatives there?
The P16 comes with either Intel integrated GPU, or NVIDIA discrete GPU. Which do you have? The following command will tell you.
lshw -C video
I honestly think you’re overthinking this. They ship a product with an OS. That OS is still supported, and as such they’re not really under any obligation to help you move off that OS. Can we stick to the technical questions and leave the navel gazing for another day?
As time goes on, enough people who are technically savvy will want a newer release working on their laptop, in general, on the whole, the newer kernels will work because the changes that were hurried into the oem* packages trickle into the upstream kernel.
In short, don’t expect Canonical do directly provide any driver updates for later LTS releases, unless Lenovo pays them to.
So, either keep what you have, and try upgrading later, or upgrade now. But use the live ISO as a way to do a quick check to make sure a slightly more modern kernel will do what’s needed on that device.
The question is just “now or later”. I’d opt for now, while you have us all on tenterhooks and are willing to help if it falls to pieces.
