Hi I’m not sure if I can get my post to work something is bound to go wrong but I’ll explain my problem: There are still many users like me running older Windows OS. I’ve been running Win7_32 and Win7_64 for years with third party security apps, firewall, and Firefox browser. I avoided MS upgrades because I could see repeat cycles of instability, bug fixes, and updates. Unfortunately many websites like this Forum detect older browsers which have become unsupported. Supported browsers won’t install on Win7 so I looked for a solution that wasn’t Windows 10 or 11.
I’ve successfully installed Ubuntu 24.04 in virtual box on my newest 64 bit AHCI/GPT machine running Win7_64, but hit a brick wall trying to repeat on an older Asus P5Q mobo with a Legacy only BIOS. The problem isn’t the Ubuntu ISO (yet) but third party apps used for creating a bootable image on a flash drive. The flash stick must be seen as FAT32 by the MBR BIOS. later versions of Rufus refuse to run on a Win7 OS with error ‘ISO image uses Grub 2.12 and app only works with grub 2.02’. The only success I’ve had was using Ubuntu ISO 18.04 LTS which built via Rufus v3.2 and installed via MBR. I had success burning Ubuntu 24.04 on a dual layer DVD, but it is so slow to install. I haven’t tried creating a Ubuntu flash drive using Rufus latest version on a Win10 machine I don’t have, but I think that would probably work?
Any ideas that don’t rely on a Win7 compatible app creating the Ubuntu flash would be welcome. There’s an opportunity for more users hitting unsupported browser problems to run Ubuntu on older platforms for basic features, but many would just give up and buy a new PC preinstalled with Windows 10 or 11.
Light weight flavors:
Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, Budgie
Flavors of Ubuntu only come with three years of supported life (five years applies to Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server but not flavors)
I found even Kubuntu, more of a middle weight flavor worked on my old 2006 XP based laptop. Slow with internal HDD, but reasonable with external SSD.
The oldest machine I use in Quality Assurance testing for current Ubuntu (and flavor) releases is a 2005 HP Compaq, and it boots all supported releases, plus the current resolute or what will become Ubuntu 26.04 LTS Desktop ISO too.
It’ll depend on how the ISO is written, if your software writes it UNCHANGED the ISO will boot on legacy BIOS hardware, uEFI and modern Secure-Boot uEFI hardware.
I have noted (and have a box here) some boxes have firmware bugs that cause the ISO to take >11 minutes to boot; but if you’re patient it will boot… A reformat of ISO can cause that box to boot like a normal BIOS box, HOWEVER if the ISO is reformatted to make that machine boot at normal speed; that thumb-drive/ISO cannot be used on any other BIOS box as it needed to be reformatted to get around the firmware bug in the device. I just put on music & wait ~11 mins for that box to boot when I use it for QA testing (which is rare anyway). That box came with Microsoft Windows Vista (so older than your 7 example anyway).
If your old windows 7 software writes the ISO unchanged you’ll find it works; as the ISOs >20.04 do require the ISO writing software to be changed (on occasion) when reformatting the ISO during write; but that’s just the way it is, as Ubuntu is now working to keep all architectures booting the same way for a given release, regardless of architecture (this wasn’t a focus before 20.04, where different architectures booted differently).
All currently supported Ubuntu versions have iso files, that can be cloned to both a DVD and a USB pendrive. And you should be able to find some cloning tool in most operating systems, even old versions ‘beyond end of life’ of Windows. But some of those tools are risky, you can easily overwrite a drive by mistake.
An easier and safer option might be to ask a friend, relative or colleague, who has a currently supported version of Linux, Windows or MacOS to help you create a USB drive with a current version of Ubuntu. Here you can use one of the recommended tools,
in Ubuntu: The built-in tool Startup Disk Creator, mkusb, Ventoy and Balena Etcher should work reliably
in Windows: Rufus, Balena Etcher or Ventoy should all work reliably
In MacOS Balena Etcher should work reliably.
And when you have a USB boot drive with Ubuntu, you can not only install it, but also run a live session in your computers. It means that you not only test it, but also use it to do most things that you can do in an installed system.
So for example, you can create new USB boot drives (of light-weight flavours of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu MATE or Xubuntu. They will probably work better in your old computer compared to standard Ubuntu Desktop.
(There is no current version/flavour of Ubuntu, that works with 32-bit Intel CPUs, but you can find several other Linux alternatives, if you want to play with a really old computer.)
Thanks for your replies, I’m just a starter with Ubuntu so I’ll digest what you all suggested. To clear up one point. When you use Rufus to create a boot flash from the Ubuntu ISO you can select the output boot format. However, later versions 4.4 (Grub 2.12) Rufus won’t run on a Windows7 machines giving an error message ‘The version of Windows is no longer Supported and the last supported version is v3.22’ Whilst Rufus version 3.22 will run an install of Ubuntu 24 but fails with an error the ISO image was Grub 2.12 and the app is compatible up to Grub 2.02.
These compatibility issues with apps not built to be backwards compatible and their installer being rejected by unsupported Windows are what I was hoping to avoid with a Ubuntu V24 platform. Once Ubuntu is installed I may run into driver issues on an older MBR board, but I’ll see if I get that far. It occurred to me that a bootable DVD in an older machine using the same ISO image should still work, although slower and it does because the Legacy MBR BIOS between MBR formatted hard drives knows nothing about UEFI. I was able to install Ubuntu 24 into VirtualBox because I ran VB version 7.0. Copy/paste and file sharing works, but as I expected USB from inside VB doesn’t. I can live with that to run latest Firefox browser without out of date nags from websites (Even though I’ve managed to get away with User Agent spoofing for some time).
If I can get a working Ubuntu desktop, I’ll have no need for Windows. I have a later mobo running Win7_64 GPT partitioned and once I cut my teeth on the MBR BIOS board I’ll be more confident with that BIOS working like everybody else.
I appreciate your replies, but give me some time whilst I think about them and try to find a work around. My partner uses this older x86 MBR bios over clocked 3Ghz machine for browsing, shopping, email, photos and LibreOffice. Ubuntu 24 loaded and running as trial was very fast, clean, and simple without bloat and not overloaded with apps she won’t use. I’ll know when I install it for real if I hit Intel mobo or peripheral driver compatibility issues. Thanks
My Intel mobo is 64 bit architecture but running x86. Unfortunately Asus were still developing the UEFI BIOS which was only released as a buggy upgrade for higher spec. mobo versions. Yes once I get a working Ubuntu Desktop, I’m confident I can use the ISOs to create a working flash installer. Until then I may have to use A Win10 box since there are more of those about.
That is a problem due to you using an outdated version of rufus, one that CANNOT reformat the later Ubuntu releases correctly; the purpose of rufus updates. Use the option rufus provides to write the ISO unchanged or cloned.
If you follow rufus docs, it tells you to use the fallback write, ie. write the ISO unchanged or cloned to your install media, as the rufus app can’t handle the newer ISOs it wasn’t coded for correctly. This option is called dd-mode and exists on newer rufus versions (added by rufus developer when the older version incorrectly writing ISOs was report), it’ll write the ISO unchanged or just clone to the boot media).
The grub versions do NOT matter UNLESS you’re formatting the ISO during write; which is what you’re doing, but with an outdated version of rufus that can’t handle the ISO you’re trying to write. Your issue is self-created. Update your rufus software. The current version of rufus is 4.11 which will write all ISOs correctly.
I’ve correctly installed Ubuntu resolute (what will be 26.04) on the old 2005 HP Compaq I mentioned in the last week; and on other devices of that era (2008 & 2009) and had no issues. All the machines I’m mentioned are pre-uEFI & legacy BIOS hardware.
That is NOT a Ubuntu ISO issue, but the options in your old rufus version cannot correctly handle the newer Ubuntu ISOs. If you updated your Microsoft Windows machine, you’d be capable of installing the newer software.
You cannot expect modern and supported OSes to never change into the future, so they remain backward compatible forever - we’d still be using machines with a 1MB RAM (8088/8086 limits) capacity if that was the case… or even 64KB (if back on 8080 era) instead we’re using machines now with many GB of RAM & TB/PB of storage due to advances & change.
Older ISO writing software will still work, providing you select options that do not change the ISO via reformat, ie. clone the ISO unchanged… Using the dd command of 1987 does that; and it’s what rufus uses if you use the dd-mode option that was added to the rufus software.
Thanks for all your replies, I’ve now done some more work and hope it answers questions for other members:
Platforms are Win7 32bit (64 bit CPU capable) and Win7 64 bit MBR & UEFI Bios currently running Win7_64. If you can’t create Ubuntu installation media you aren’t going to install it and may choose Windows for the easier option!
Like others I’ve used Rufus for years but despite recommends to use the latest version, versions 4+ are no longer compatible with any flavor of Win7. Rufus V 3.2 captures Ubuntu ISO v24, but won’t boot. There are reasons why. An older machine will expect a boot flash to be in Fat32 format and should work with FAT32 extended but test it. Ubuntu latest ISOs are >8Gb and can only be installed in a FAT32 (ext) partition. Any Ubuntu ISO can be burned to dual layer DVD and the host system BIOS whether MBR or UEFI will install it correctly. But creating the bootable media and reading it is obviously very slow. The first time I tried this, the Ubuntu screen threw up lots of red error script lines which went away after I disabled the internal floppy drive in BIOS. Another flash image boot option to exclude for MBR BIOS is ‘‘Secure boot’
When testing a boot flash image I use F8 at boot and check the device is in the BIOS boot list. If the flash drive isn’t there, it won’t boot. A big trap is large flash drives may be created on a USB3 drive. An older host pc may have a USB3 PCI express card installed, but USB3 card drivers will not be available until an OS boots. You have to use mobo machine USB2 ports.
Rufus has several release versions with different creation options and it’s not clear what you are creating. E.g it offers FAT32 but must create in FAT32 (Ext). MBR and UEFI are joined and I wasn’t certain what it was doing. From suggestions here I tried Ventoy. Unlike Rufus it doesn’t execute the ISO build until its own Ventoy image boots in the host machine. However, it has important creation options - Secure Boot Support (NO!), Partition Style MBR or GPT (seperated), ExFAT,NTFS,FAT32, &UDF.
I have now got Ubuntu on USB using Ventoy and it boots to the Ventoy ISO choice and install the Desktop trial. I’ve not tried an install from the desktop live trial because data transfers in limited memory of 4-8Gb will be very slow and hardware USB potentially buggy. Ventoy 1.1.10 is now my App choice for creating a bootable Ubuntu flash for Win7.
Sorry if this is a simple conclusion to my saga, but without getting it to work, a perfectly good adequate performing older PC would have gone to landfill and been replaced with a Windows laptop.I now have the opportunity to explore and use Ubuntu. Thanks
PS: The DD menu mode option in my later versions of Rufus no longer appears, which I understand happens when the (Ubuntu) ISO is perfectly constructed?
When Ventoy works well for you, don’t worry about the other tools
Anyway, welcome to the Ubuntu community. Now that you can run live sessions, I think that you will soon run also an installed Ubuntu system (or a light-weight flavor e.g. Lubuntu) too.
You can explore the apps/tools that are bundled in the iso file, and apps/tools that can be installed using apt or snap. And then, when you want to do something that you cannot figure out yourself, you are welcome to ask, or if you find something that seems strange, discuss at this forum.
That is a decision made by the rufus programmer; you’d have to ask that programmer why they made that decision.
All released Ubuntu ISOs are well constructed; and created in a way that allows them to boot correctly on most hardware regardless of whether or not its using legacy BIOS, uEFI or modern Secure Boot uEFI if written unchanged to install media. There is extensive Quality Assurance testing done to ensure this.
Your problem was using a program that didn’t reformat the ISO correctly, as it was using an outdated reformat routine created for an older ISOs only.
Of course you are correct and my comments aren’t about Ubuntu release per-se, but if you can’t install Ubuntu, it doesn’t matter how good and perfect it is, others will lose patience and choose Windows. instead. Searching the internet, many posts recommend Rufus for the first step to joining the Ubuntu community which I’ve explained used to work for Win 7 but now doesn’t for latest releases
I’ve explained the problem is creating a flash drive using a 3rd party app that won’t work for older Win7. I’m not a programmer but I understand Windows programs are built using Microsoft SDKs and If MS won’t allow newer App builds to be compatible with unsupported Windows, there’s no choice but to try older app versions which I’ve explained aren’t compatible with latest Ubuntu ISO builds. It’s the chicken & egg argument with the same frustrating consequences.
If I was managing this huge Ubuntu community, I’d be concerned if the hard work of contributors could be affected my Microsoft decisions to remove support for older Windows in new Apps, essential for migrating an older Windows machine to Ubuntu?
I’ll ask a question of learned members: Can an open source Ubuntu installer application be developed within control of the community which is backwards compatible allowing migration from Windows to Ubuntu latest releases for older machines? Although I suspect MS licensing could get in the way.
Any tool that writes the ISO unchanged should work… The dd command was created in 1974, and it’ll write an ISO correctly today. I was introduced to that command as it allowed dumping data from disk to magnetic tape.
That dd command was available for old Microsoft DOS too (along with a lot of other unix type commands; used by some of us nerds; though not from Microsoft). Alas command line tools aren’t used that often by most younger Windows users. I still have an old DOS computer, and it may actually be able to do it (slowly anyway), alas it just doesn’t have any USB ports, or if it has it’ll be USB 1.0 and useful only for keyboard/mouse & would probably take days to write an actual ISO (it’s fs couldn’t cope with the large ISO filesize would be a problem anyway!*)
That ancient tool would work probably work on a Windows install too, though the old file I had would be run within a Virtual DOS machine I bet, given it pre-dated any ~useful Microsoft Windows (ie. before even Windows 3.0).
Key is you just need a tool that WRITES THE ISO UNCHANGED; your rufus is failing as you were using options to change the ISO; rufus tries to provide extra functionality and reformat the ISO unless you use the dd-mode and cannot write ISOs >20.04 correctly as a result (unless it’s updated to do so).
The question is: Doesn’t your old Rufus (the one still compatible with Windows 7) has the dd-mode? If so use that, end of story. It used to have it but if the newer versions that don’t support Win7 hasn’t that is a false problem.
And, again, if you already have Ventoy, don’t worry about anything else. Other than choosing the correct light variant of Ubuntu to get the best out of your old computer.
Discussing why doesn’t new software support obsolete OSes is pointless.
