intro: im a software dev by heart. I started programming with 10yo. Studied AI in Amsterdam, worked as dev, team lead and currently as Technical area manager. Since I started changing my carreer path to team lead/manager I started programming again for fun privately which is the main reason I’d like to return to ubuntu.
I’m no GUI dev nor am I comfortable with the term “full stack”. I feel most comfortable with low level integrations but I can code anything and my last “professional” work was coding scalable caching architectures on AWS for an SAS software supporting millions of users.
I collected my linux knowledge handling apache and nginx servers back in the non-cloud aera and used linux version 18.xx privately for several years.
Why I’d like to use (native) ubuntu:
My private coding concerns AI and Nvidia seems to concentrate on ubuntu
I am/was using WSL2 in win10 for coding things but MS is trying to force feed win11 and win11 seems a bit annoying.
TLDR: im (probably) not a ranting idiot
I do not have a lot of time with family and work and hobbies… so Im sorry if im not taking my time to research the causes of these potential issues but I’d like for anyone who has background knowledge - please point me into a direction where i can use my (dev)knowledge where i can assist to discuss and potentially hands on address them. (without a lot of blablabalab and time wastage)
my expectations of an OS:
run docker
run everyday/ office-type software for document/image editing
run some IDE for coding
dont waste my hardware ressources
dont waste my time
some sense of security (which is mainly fine on linux)
To be clear - I’ll write my intuitive expectations and my opinion about the reality. I’d like to adress these “issues” and help to reduce them (either consulting, managing or hands on coding) if they turn out to be real issues and not just my fault or a misjudged expectation.
Wayland support:
when i stopped my private/hobby coding a while (~8 years) ago my impression was that wayland was already trying to “replace” X11. IMO - this hasnt changed in that time. wayland support of desktops/applications is intransparent, convoluted and basically “a mess”.
Snap
it seems that this is being force fed to ubuntu users without any proper alternative. Why?
IMO- If you want to introduce a new feature which is not mature yet - make it optional. dont make it annoying to uninstall, dont make it the only properly supported functionality.
Desktop
I dont care if I use XFCE, GNOME or KDE or anything else… I want a desktop to do desktop things i just went whatever was installed by default which is KDE. Let me give one (of many) annoyances with the desktop:
– manual shortcuts on the Taskbar (KDE isnt sure its sometimes called Dash or Dock - for fun ill call it taskbar)
— intuitive expextation: I drag and drop the binary on taskbar / i rightclick the binary and choose something like “create shortcut on taskbar” from the menu
— reality… i have to waste my time to research how to make a taskbar link which turns out to be: “create a text file with info about the binary which then in turn allows to make that shortcut”
I had many occurences where I expected something to be a regular/intuitive useable feature which then turned out to be something i had to waste time on to research. I’d like to address them individually but not here.
Because of these experiences im currently considering to waste my time to install win11 and de-bloat it so i can use WSL again because this seems less time-consuming then continueing with ubuntu.
Heya,
Yea, there are a lot of UX and UI issues that is for sure.
I though I don’t think that they are a priority.
Gnome (Ubuntu default) is developed by Gnome itself which are bunch of Red Hat guys I think, not supper sure, Ubuntu just piles few extensions on styling on top. Though even as a standalone project, Gnome has many issues. Wayland has issues (my experience). Btw Gnome 49 is ridding itself of X11 at least partially, not that it will add or remove from UX or UI.
Tbh I don’t think the things around UX/UI will change since I don’t find Gnome project community particularly responsive (also, my experience).
If you use KDE then you probably are using Kubuntu so idk about what’s going on with KDE since I don’t use it myself and people gotten into fights over whichever to use.
So people get into fights over UI and whatever techinical decisions and it is what it is. Some of my colleagues would gladly drive a stake through my heard for my modifications to the UI since I like the UI of mac and I somewhat replicate it on Ubuntu…
I am an ordinary computer user. I will go further and say. I am an ordinary Ubuntu computer user.
I have a completely different experience of Linux/Ubuntu gained over many years of being a Ubuntu user. I do not agree with you.
I am able to find Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) applications that allow me to do what I want to do.
I last used a Microsoft operating system when it was called Win98. I am able to do on Ubuntu what I started to do on Win 98 and I can now do much more than that.
I use a combination of Debian packaged applications and Snap packaged applications along with an application or two that has been installed through the command line .
My computer working life has improved over the years. That is mostly due to the improvements made to the applications.
I am thankful for Ubuntu. I use the Gnome desktop environment. I am also thankful for Gnome. I do not see any value in arguing over which is the better desktop environment. Use whatever suits your fancy.
I will not tell you what I think of complainers. With FOSS if we do not like something then there is little stopping a person from getting involved and changing things. Or, trying to change things. We might find that there are others with more credit than us who have their own ideas.
Ultimately, there is nothing much stopping a person doing what Richard Stallman did - write his own operating system. Or, doing what Mark Shuttleworth and friends did - bring out their own Linux distribution.
The Community area is for “for discussion and coordination of community-related activities”
I noted discussion about the Ubuntu OS far more than the Ubuntu community, thus I’ve moved it from the Community area to Lounge which is a better fit given its for “general discussion and ideas”.
@graymech if this seems a complaint then i may have to edit my post. I thought this was clear enough… but let me know what i can change to make it clearer:
I added my intent to the top after intro - i want to help but i dont have a lot of time to find out where to start.
I dont think the UI bit is my main pain point - its a bit annoying to have so many “flavours” but all seem to try to do their own thing and all seem to somehow also work “seemless”… ie. i can use a gnome app in kde - this feels a bit like a waste of ressources since its then booting gnome libs + kde libs… but yes… this is just one of the and certainly not the biggest issue - it just added a bit.
I think my main issues are wayland being flaky and kinda hanging in thin air and
the thing liked most about linux… the package manager - i dont feel comfortable with snap and the package manager “apt” is very time consuming without a proper UI. i wasted time finding a tool because the “apt search” delivers so many items without any of the search terms i entered.
The included AppCenter allows you to switch to deb (or snap) at the top of the window … when switched to deb you should be able to simply use it as apt frontend … is that not intuitive enough ?
ok… i mightve figured out what happened here… some googling shows that initially there was only the snap store without deb support… which was then “fixed” by replacing that with an AppCenter? something like this?
Couldve it be i just installed ubuntu in that period?
Well, the “snap-store” (which is still the package name on the low level) used to just be gnome-software packaged as a snap with the deb and snap plugins included …
But the performance and UI issues it had were unbearable …
Then a community team formed to write an alternative tool in flutter (there should be plenty discussions here on the forum from that development) … that eventually replaced gnome-software inside the “snap-store” snap (after some additional polishing from the Canonical design team IIRC)
So yes, the package name on the commandline is still snap-store but it never exposed itself as that in any UI and the current implementation actually comes from a community effort …
sorry i only get half of that “a snap with a deb and snap plugins included”
I’m mainly using CLI - i didnt want to use snap and therefore uninstalled this “ominous” package called snap-store. If this issue can be resolved - for the CLI loving type of users - by renaming the package then thats just grandiose.
No, this is sadly not easy since the package is installed on millions of devices already and renaming an installed snap for users is not an easy task …
There is nothing you can help with, it would have to be some implementation on the snap store side (i.e. the “backend machinery”) and in snapd on the respective machines that have the snap-store snap installed …
The change would have to be a conceptual design change applying to the whole snap system (which simply has no concept of one package replacing the other today)
Given that snaps are a huge commercial success for Canonical and installed on many many mission critical devices as well as gazillions of enterprise desktops nowadays such a change has to be carried out very very carefully to not break anything, even if such a thing got onto the roadmap it would likely take a very long time until a final change would be implemented …
interesting… thanks for the info and your time @ogra If i have some more time myself to look into this I will. having the functionality to replace/rename or alias packages seems usefull.
Well, the snapd source code is here in case you want to take a look:
(though I’d also suggest to get familiar with the existing snap functionality first, before trying to send patches … which might indeed be tricky if you have removed it)
is the package managing functionality not isolated “code-wise” from the other functionalities of snap? At first glance this seems to be the case. snapd/store at master · canonical/snapd · GitHub
re-reading the thread i thought about this:
could a solution be to offer an option during ubuntu install like:
would you like to use snap(yes/no) and on “no” - just install a default “apt package managing” gui instead?
researching the topic (superficially) there seems to be a quite large group of people who dont want to use snap (for reasons unknown and also i do not care about the reasons).
So why is snap / snap-store not optional but forced onto the user - (yes afaik the ‘minimal’ install doesnt include snap which is an option but tbh. installing minimal is also time consuming afterwards and most users wont do that)
and probably offtopic but pls let me know where i can post these:
is snap reinventing package management? if so why not piggy back on apt or “packagekit” ?
“a snap with a deb and snap plugins included”