Keep irc an official support method for Ubuntu

Dear Ubuntu crew,

Let’s keep IRC an official support method to help users quickly without the need

of registration on the Libera network.

According to netsplit.de Libera is still biggest network out there with a big linux

minded community and support channels of all sort of distro’s.

A lot of users still rely on irc and a lot of ubuntu flavours have their irc client by default

pointing towards irc aswell.

And yelp on ubuntu still point the get more help towards community docs where irc

is also still offered.

Feel free to share your ideas here, why you want IRC to stay around for Ubuntu.

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After reading in the other topic 26.04.1 Irc support - #2 by arraybolt3 that the Comms Council has plans to sunset IRC as an official Ubuntu communications platform, i was disappointed.

As i said there the plan to sunset/drop IRC as official support is something i dislike and to be honest the matrix room isn’t that much active either. From what i have read from a lot of people is that they don’t like matrix and having trouble to set up an account and keeping it.

IRC has always been the go to and is much easier to connect with. Why not keep both IRC and matrix or even bridge them.

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Part of the issue with continuing to officially support IRC is that we aren’t going to have the infrastructure to properly support it for much longer. irclogs.ubuntu.com is scheduled to be shut down without replacement as part of Canonical’s migration away from older infrastructure. Other bots that the Ubuntu community has historically relied upon may also not continue to be maintained depending on how things go (anything Canonical-hosted I would expect to go away). Discontinuing official support for IRC keeps everyone on platforms that the community as a whole monitors, maintains, and works on. That doesn’t mean IRC has to go away entirely; I don’t see any reason to shut down the #ubuntu-* rooms, and if people want to keep using them, that’s great, it just means that the Communications Council won’t be overseeing it and people won’t be steered there by default.

If the community wants to host the necessary services for IRC to continue to be well-supported, anyone who wants to is welcome to do so, and if there is enough action in this area, I highly suspect the Communications Council would be willing to change their minds about deprecating it.

We tried for multiple months (maybe even a whole year?) to get a bridge working. Canonical simply was not able to spin up a bridge that met Libera.Chat’s requirements.

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@arraybolt3

The community and the volunteers have always been around irc and helped

building it up for years, so it would be only fair the community gets the chance

to continue this.

Can you guys document this specificly what will be needed to take over the

irc channels, like will the channel founder be transfered to someone?

what will happen to the current operators? how does the flavour leads all

feel about this?

will ubottu need to be transfered to another server etc?

I know several volunteers that are willing to help to continue Ubuntu on irc.

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The online logging and info bot are nice services but are not required to provide support on IRC. Other than that, IRC support should be handed over to the community and kept going.

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Yesterday the Ubuntu Communications Council had our bi-weekly meeting. I brought this up during the meeting to establish what our view is on IRC, given that there are community members interested in helping maintain it.

The very brief answer is that we still intend to deprecate IRC for official purposes (and only for official purposes). I thought perhaps we would change our minds because of the community effort that popped up, but we agreed that wasn’t the best way to go after discussion.

However, that is a very nuanced answer that is also very easy to misread, so I’ll elaborate a bit more below.

First off, “deprecation” is kind of a misleading word here, since it implies that rooms are going to be shut down or otherwise become no longer usable. That is not the case here. For existing IRC regulars, moderators, and people seeking support on IRC, everything will continue to basically be business as usual. A few services Canonical hosted might go away and need community-hosted replacements. Ubuntu Governance will be generally less aware of what goes on in IRC-land than we’re aware of what goes on in Matrix-land and the like. There might be less users coming there since we won’t be advertising IRC as an official support channel, though I kind of doubt the new user influx will drop much. Other than that, everything should just keep working like it’s working now. So if you’re an active IRC user, and you like IRC and want to stay there, that’s perfectly fine, and there will still be a place to stay.

Second off, this deprecation applies to the Ubuntu community in general, but not necessarily individual sub-communities. If Xubuntu for instance wants to continue to advertise IRC as a first-class citizen for how to get support or talk to developers, they are more than welcome to do that, and IRC will remain fully supported from their perspective. It will be their responsibility to maintain their spaces and keep them in line with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, potentially without as much outside support from the community.

Thirdly, the shutdown of Canonical infrastructure isn’t the only reason the Communications Council wants to deprecate IRC. Another core reason is that the governance side of the community just isn’t on IRC as much as we are on other platforms. I previously was a regular IRC user, as was every other member of the Ubuntu Communications Council (possibly with the exception of Ian?). We just… aren’t anymore, and maintaining an IRC setup in addition to everything else we do is a burden that many of us don’t have the time to deal with. Without Ubuntu governance overseeing IRC, it’s difficult for us to maintain Ubuntu’s goals for a communication platform (adherence to the CoC, spam protection, good moderation, etc.), and without a strong enough community presence there to keep us on IRC, it’s difficult for us to justify staying there. Communities do move between platforms, and due to both technical difficulties and the overall better UX of Matrix compared to IRC, we tried to add Matrix on as an additional platform and the community ended up mostly migrating there instead.

In summary, what @leftyfb suggested is what will happen. Ubuntu governance doesn’t have the bandwidth to maintain the platform, and Canonical isn’t going to be hosting services for it, so it will be handed to the community for them to maintain if they care to. It will become more-or-less like the Ubuntu Hideout on Discord, an unofficial platform that users are welcome to use if they want. All the channel founders, operators, etc. will stay exactly the way they are now.

To answer @lotuspsychje’s questions, there isn’t much to document since IRC won’t be an official platform anymore. If there are volunteers willing to maintain the platform, have at it. There will be an announcement post about this topic that will mention more specifically what services will be going away, so that you and others know what you need to host if you want to keep things running as they are. (I’d list them here but I don’t know what all they are yet :P) The existing channel mods, admins, and Libera staff should be able to help you finagle things with channel moderation and ownership if it’s necessary. (If you need help for some reason, for instance to tell Libera staff that it’s fine for them to make a particular change you need made, we’re very likely willing to help there too.)

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@arraybolt3

Can we assign an existing channel or new channel on irc to start discussing

with community/ops/council wich road to continue?

I can hop on IRC for a chat. I’m in the middle of my dayjob, so I might not be able to respond in real time, but I can be there.

The discussion is currently going on the channel #ubuntu-irc on irc.libera.chat

feel free to join the discussion if you are interested to help think along.

2 Likes

Current topics have been discussed:

*Is there moderation enough or is there need to form a new moderation team

*Should other Ubuntu/flavour channels be merged into # Ubuntu to create more activity

Current changes seen:

*topic in # Ubuntu changed to: Topic for # Ubuntu is: Ubuntu Community Support Channel

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There are a couple of things that we have on IRC that we’re missing on Matrix. Please could we get these before getting rid of the old thing?

  1. Static website containing chat logs that we can easily link to
  2. Meetingology
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