How to use refind

Lounge
1

My guess idahobronco is that you are overwhelmed by all this. “Desktop Environment: I really don’t have a clue…!”"

The debates can sound like Danny Kaye.

The famous “vessel with the pestle” routine is from the 1955 musical-comedy film “The Court Jester,” starring Danny Kaye as Hubert Hawkins.

I will offer one tip. I have found the old rEFInd to be invaluable for this old codger to ring the changes. In fact I run my Ubuntu from external caddies in Startech docking bay. There are less risks that you can screw-up notwitstanding the software being easy (for pros).

https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/

The next point is that I see no suggestions to use gparted in these posts. You will need to partition your target drive(s) in advance. You then install into preformatted partitions.

Now recently I was introduced to MultiPass.

I wonder as a learning exercise if you could just create a Ubuntu VM to experiment with.

You can launch Windows VM and Ubuntu VM and switch between the VM’s. Ubuntu VM and Windows VM. Just another wheeze. This way there is less chance of screwing up.

I prefer to do what you are doing in a completely separate drive (in my case held in plugin caddies).

“My computer is a 2020 Dell Vostro. I have an SSD 256 main disk. I have also installed my old HHD 1T as a secondary drive. I am working out of the Windows 11 Pro OS.”

You have another option of trying WSL inside Windows 11. Ubuntu on WSL | Ubuntu

I must add here that I am still on old Windows 10 dual boot so I don’t (can’t) use WSL. Until next upgrade of workstation.

Or you can create a Ubuntu VM in Windows 11.

Horses for courses depending on the ratio of work between Ubuntu and Windows 11.

I have four caddy drives in GParted .. here is a glimpse of one ..

image
image837×228 28.9 KB

2

The reason for NOT suggesting GParted at this point is because, in order to shrink the Windows partitions, ONLY Windows tools are recommended, running from inside Windows, period. And no, you DON’T need to partition in advance, the method was already explained a few posts before yours. Furthermore, under no circumstance you should use GParted to manage Windows partitions that are hibernated, semi-hibernated due to Fast Startup or in any way “dirty” (e.g. with logical errors), it risks Windows not being able to boot and not even being able to correct itself!
The OP very likely has no concept of partitions, let alone use GParted.

Also of note, in spite of you correctly recognizing the OP might be overwhelmed, you then introduce rEFInd? Really, what for? It makes no sense… And then virtual machines, MultiPass, WSL ???

2 Likes
3

old school which has worked for decades. You might not need to use GParted. But it offers visibility. No other motives. Ask OldFred for second opinion. I avoid windows like the plague. VM’s are easier.

And .. this is another reason “because you don’t want to write the ISO to the WRONG drive as it’ll delete everything and overwrite it”

P.S. there should be no need for shrinking windows partition if there is a second hard drive for Ubuntu. “I have also installed my old HHD 1T as a secondary drive.” .. leave Windows alone. You can even put the HHD is an external container and connect via USB 3.0. That is where my Ubuntu sits in a caddy as I write this. Every day. My pennyworth.

4

Yes, it still does very well, especially for its original purpose on APPLE hardware.

The only visibility the OP needs is of the unallocated space required for letting the installer automatically create all the required partitions (only the root one currently; it’ll use the ESP already there).

Nothing wrong with GParted, I use it a lot. But it’s absolutely not needed for what the OP wants to do - dual boot Windows 11 + Kubuntu -, all the opposite, it’s strongly discouraged for beginners, especially for those who don’t know what a partition is!

Your suggestion implies one has to do a manual partitioning and a manual installation, something that any sane person knowing th OP’s limitations would say it’s a very BAD idea…

No need. I actually echoed his main talking points :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: - Windows and Windows tools for shrinking NTFS partitions, ESP is already there, do not overpartition, for this case definitely use the automated default options from the installer, … -, should I add oldfred’s suggestion of late of having a cloned ESP in additional drives, if present? Probably not, it may turn out to be an additional anxiety inducing issue for little to no gain.

The ISO will be written in Windows which is the only OS the OP has installed and running, at the moment. In this context (that you probably missed out) what you wrote seems kind of nonsensical, me thinks.

You could’ve argued users should know where to install the second OS because It [the installer] will delete everything and overwrite it. But there’s a much higher chance deleting/overwritting whole drives when making a wrong move with GParted. Again, having unallocated space and using the “Install alongside…” is the LESS risky option (I would even say there’s no risk at all, the script is very smart, but nothing is 100% risk free…)

Any current OS of any family will struggle running from old spinning disks, reason why it was hinted from the start “do not install in an HDD, always SSD”. Even so, all the above applies and more.

Keep in mind, for the future and for context, the OP had Kubuntu only installed (in a store and being swindled out of $130) but somehow broken in many ways. Then installed Windows, isn’t happy with it and now apparently wants a dual-boot. A story like so many others so far. However, this thread starts because the OP is struggling with making the live/installation … So, everything you suggested in one post, irrespective of the merits, are things that are very far in the future for this person to consider and it’s putting the cart in front of the horse. We are at the point of explaining how to install a Windows tool (e.g. Balena Etcher) and use it to create the bootable live/installation media and then they may need guidance on how to successfully install the dual-boot but LATER… Right now please focus on helping how to create the live/installation media on Windows, if you have a different idea or suggestion.

2 Likes
5

I was unaware from this post that User had been swindled as you put it. Even more reason for a phased approach as suggested below. I write as an octogenarian squeezing as much as I can out of assets. I want to avoid a football match scuffle between Partick Thistle and Celtic supporters.

My suggestions are as follows.

The clue was in OP writing “I dont have a clue”.

Newcomers to Ubuntu or other OS need a navigation aid other than heated discourses like this adding to their confusion about the path forward.

Drawing on my current engineering interests in reliability engineering I might if time permits at some point create a crude failure analysis tree which if taken up could be voted on by Ubuntu community. The important points ranked to avoid failure.

Basically all the likely failure events are listed and the community might vote on their relevance.

The newcomer then has a community vote on the likely failure points to eliminate. Navigating away from failure. A navigation path.

My view is that if the raw newcomer wishes to explore Ubuntu there should be a prototyping base where the very thought of changing existing Microsoft is deferred. There are multiple options as suggested.

We have overlooked the option of the raw newcomer learning the ropes by the simple mechanism (zero impact on Microsoft Windows) such as ephemeral Live USB.

That is instead of installing Ubuntu with all the risks we start by learning

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=303878

One poster writes in above post …

“It’s not a cheesy, stop-gap solution. It is useful to glean solutions and approaches from others while learning the ropes in creating your own ISO.”

I go further and suggest that there should be an official download with a burned in moodle.org tutorial to help the USB user to get to grips with dual (or n+1) booting.

https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=390831

Bridging knowledge gap between Windows user and battle hardened Ubuntu users.

Regarding gparted (from a search on whether it is installed by default):

“GParted is not pre-installed on the final installed version of Ubuntu, but it is included in the Ubuntu Live USB/DVD (the “Try Ubuntu” mode). It is widely used there to manage partitions before installing. On a fully installed system, you can install it using sudo apt install gparted.”

Then I learned on the ephemeral USB how to install gparted and partition the test HDD(s) as they were replaced with SSD’s.

Albeit HDD’s old but still reliable for some usage.

A later learning phase would be to clone (using gparted) the HDD onto a more modern SSD (SSD becoming more expensive) so there is an argument for recycling HDD’s for archiving and avoiding “bit rot” with SSD if thrown in a drawer and not used for years.

So my stages (roughly thought out) might be:

Stage 1: Assess knowledge of end user migrating from Windows to Ubuntu (or vice versa).

Stage 2: Purchase USB(s) for Live USB experiments.

Stage 3: Review ephemeral usage where the Live USB can be “base camp one”. Just as a “gateway” in exploratory terms.

Stage 4: Learn Ubuntu by “Try Ubuntu” mode.

Stage 5: Learn BIOS settings.

Stage 6. Learn rEFInd capabiitities and how to customise the configuration file with different themes.

Stage 7: Install rEFInd on host Windows and ephemeral USB.

Stage 8: Learn backups to various recycled drives.

Stage 9: Learn media options (HDD, SSD) from placing media in external containers such as StarTech (I use), to placing SSD inside second drive caddy (if there is one), to simply sticking SSD with velcro to workstation innards. Ensure USB 3.0 ports available. Buy a powered USB 3.0 expander if needed. Or even as I have a USB switcher (StarTech again 4 port) which allows the Ubuntu caddy/caddies to be physically switched between Users. Advanced usage mode. Useful for family sharing of assets.

Stage10: Learn data recovery methods using ephemeral USB.

Stage 11: Learn the dangers of using Ubuntu Tools to reconfigure Windows. If you must shrink partition use Windows tools. But try to avoid entirely shrinking Windows partition and allowing it to live with it as part of the nest. Coexist.

I reserve options to rethink these as I turn to moodle.org to write them up. Or even a Jupyter notebook or other. I have scenarios ahead where I need to convince hardened Windows corporate users to use a novel Ubuntu framework I have developed, so this has been a useful wakeup call.

Thanks to contributors.

POSTSCRIPT. I forgot to mention this tool I found when experimenting with EFI in Windows some time back. The problem is as with Windows products there is a cost but there is a free trial which can be used to gain experience in EFI. https://www.easyuefi.com/

This is the relevant link.

https://www.easyuefi.com/resource/set-up-multi-boot-windows-linux-and-mac-using-refind-and-easyuefi.html

Whether this is OT is for readers to judge. But it helped me to understand EFI terrain.

POSTSCRIPT. Related link seen on secure booting. Streamlining secure boot for 26.10 - #5 by schildbach

And here on pros/cons rEFInd. Beyond Grub - USB stick with rEFInd

1 Like
6

The first post and their responses were moved to the Lounge category, as it deviates the support given to the OP of the original post and constitute a separate debate in its own. Feel free to change the title if needed.