The process is simple for a Linux literate person. But the target audience for the ubuntu desktop is not these users. Show this process you are linking to the Linux noobie that just wants to run his games and he will be back on windows in no time. Containers work yeah. But the average user could only use them if the set up is done auto-magically with everything completely transparent to them. The tech is not there yet.
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# apt-cache search lib32 | egrep -i mesa
#200% agreed, Iām a subscriber. Itās the Economist of linux news. They are not much into distribution news though and have zero coverage of this so far. EDIT: wrong: https://lwn.net/Articles/791509/
And all those echo-chamber headlines are a symptom of a terrible process by Ubuntu devs, who appear a bit clueless (focusing on the 1% of users who use 32 bit hardware instead of the real problem, another dev needing to actually try to run games on a pure 64 bit system before he could see the problem ā¦). It looks very unimpressive and very out of control.
Your lxd posts look interesting, but itās kind of pre-alpha stage; you have a technical proof of concept, and I wonder if this informed the decision, or if you are heroically trying to rescue the situation.
And PS Steam and Wine dropping Ubuntu is genuine news, IMO.
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This is a really good question.
My guess is that they will piggyback on the effort done on Debian libraries and make full QA tests for their hardware only which should be much more tractable? Otherwise it will just be them rebuilding the Debian libraries. System76 are a hardware vendor after all.
OK, so your point is that someone needs to package a lib32-mesa ?
Or that Ubuntu doesnāt provide lib32-* packages?
Orā¦ ?
How will pop support multiarch, when it is too much work for Ubuntu?
If it is not a rhetorical question, you can find their response here
We at System76 are still planning what to do about this. We will certainly have our future releases continue to support Steam, and all games therein, with the same performance you would expect with current releases.
They also stated elsewhere that they will also keep the 32-bit toolchain support.
There is an echo chamber of the Ubuntu haters.
Here is a recent case.
Someone discovered the /etc/motd in Ubuntu and was crying out loud about the āaddition of ads to the motd of Ubuntu serverā. Twitter was on fire.
And here is the coverage by LWN,
https://lwn.net/Articles/726902/
I will wait to see if lwn has any substantive comment on dropping multi-arch. The lwn comments are usually highly informed, and at this point they are also pointing out the Valve decision. I think everyone is surprised and confused by the decision, including lwn readers. There are definitely ubuntu haters, but the reddit and discourse comments are more than just haters. Iām not a hater, I love ubuntu. I use it everywhere, except on Raspberry pi. But I am also confused, surprised and mostly sad. I donāt have anything more to add, except that unless something big changes, I wonāt recommend Ubuntu anymore, and I will move away from it because this decision and the way it has been made has shaken me. I see a half-baked thought-bubble reached by people who didnāt think enough and who failed to reach out to developers and projects which could have provided some different perspectives. The discovery process that is now happening is not very impressive. What really are the chances of discovering every printer which is going to break by asking passers-by on Discourse? Even if the decision was judged to be correct after that process, some convincing alternatives should have been ready at the time of the announcement. You can mention echo chamber, but what I see is group-think. I see a distribution thoughtful enough to include nvidia binaries in the 19.10 ISO and yet which will break Steam and Wine (in the opinion of Steam and Wine). There would have to be an awesome justification for this to make sense.
Youāre really committed to ubuntu and it seems you are confident there is a workable technical solution. I really like the way you engage here, thanks. I wonāt take any more of your time, I think the communication effort needs to be with Valve and Wine.
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Now, Iāve been using Ubuntu for close to fifteen years now. I donāt participate in community discussions, ever, nor do I vote in polls if you ever run those, I donāt know. I registered for this post just to express my annoyance.
But I have maintained hundreds of ubuntu servers along the years and currently run ubuntu on my desktops and laptops, as well as maintain around 20 servers currently. I found it flabbergasting how out of touch ubuntu has always been with itās users who arenāt the vocal minority. Mir, wayland, gnome shell, unity, amazon, you name it. Some might even describe these changes as hostility against itās users, like dogfooding the end users - which shouldnāt happen.
Iām so close to being done with ubuntu and its complex committees and politburo-like policing. If this doesnāt get reversed, Iāll likely move all my personal devices over to some other distro as well as servers I maintain, as I like to use the same distros on every device.
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So much for the āLinux for Human Beingsā tag line then
Linux exclusively for the tech savy more like
If youāve got old printers: tough
If you want to play old games that work perfectly fine in WINE: tough
And no ārun it in a containerā isnāt an answer - itās a sticking plaster at best & a very temporary one at that
Just got the casual gamer wife using Linux and sheās been perfectly happy with Steam, now Steam pulls the plug on Ubuntu - joy
I need to add here that the planning to phase out i386 in 19.10 was drafted and planned more than a year ago. As a community it looks bad to get loud voices at the last stages while before it was all calm. I strongly despise the āstop powerā attitude, that is, the negativity I see in copy-pasted posts. Itās not a trend, it is bad quality click-resharing.
Ok, You guys decided something 1 year ago, so we (I think a lot off pp have the same opinion) now realise that:
- we canĀ“t run properlly some apps like wine or steam
The solution:
We start using others distros
What the people are traing to say to you is this decision going to break our workflow.
I accept that we donāt pay for this (I canāt by a subscrition for my desktops; can only donate money), soo you guys need to make pratical decisions and cut costs, but this decisions point us to one thing: Ubuntu is moving form a All in one system to a IoT/Server/Cloud oriented distro, that donāt suits the needs of the majority of your user base.
Sorry man, but from my point of viewe this is a bad decision (like kill Unity). Iām going to move on to another distro, because of this.
Is only my opinion.
Need money to support the costs?! Tell the community to make donations like append with Ubuntu edge phone.
My humble opinion.
Miguel
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Hello, my name is Joseph!
From the first second of existence, Ubuntu has achieved an undisputed worldwide fame for excellence because of the user experience. Ubuntu won the desktop war against other distributions, without any doubt. And now, reallyā¦ Are they beginning to throw away any of the great work that has been done? Iām a Ubuntu 18.04 LTS user but Iāll move to another distro on 20.04 if they keep this wrong direction. In fact, Iāll move to the distro Valve/Steam will recommend.
Kind regards,
Joseph
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Since much of the discussion in this thread is based upon the 18 June announcement,
and since that announcement has been superseded by the 24 June update and newer discussion thread,
Iām going to end this thread here to avoid confusion.
There are several interesting side-discussions going on - those who wish to continue to develop those conversations, PM me and Iāll happily migrate those posts to a new thread.
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